The Greek word basileuo “to reign,” does not only mean to “rule over a people.” It is often used as metaphor, such as to “reign in life” (Rom. 5:17) where ‘shall reign in life’ indicates the activity of life in fellowship with Christ in His sovereign power, reaching its fullness hereafter; 1 Cor. 4:8…” (Vine’s, 52). One can also reign over sin (Rom. 6:12). Grace can also reign (Rom. 5:21). With this in mind it does not automatically or logically follow that there must be someone over whom the 144,000 reign on earth in the same way that contemporary governments rule over a people in today’s world.
jonathan dough
JoinedPosts by jonathan dough
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If We All Are Kings - Who Would We Rule Over?
by Perry inthis is the reasoning of jw's that embolden them to disobey jesus' offer to be his disciple and to take part in the new covenant for the forgiveness of sins.. so who are the earthly inhabitants of the kingdom in the christian view?.
the second coming of christ.. 25:31 - jesus then says the kingdom would begin when christ comes with all his angels.
25:32-46 - the judgment of the people of all nations.
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MORE LIES FROM THE MAY WATCHTOWER STUDY EDITION
by Hairyhegoat inthe path of the righteous ones is like the.
bright light that is getting lighter and lighter.
until the day is firmly established, states.
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MORE LIES FROM THE MAY WATCHTOWER STUDY EDITION
by Hairyhegoat inthe path of the righteous ones is like the.
bright light that is getting lighter and lighter.
until the day is firmly established, states.
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jonathan dough
Watchtower: Kings in Israel were prevented by law from becoming priests.
I thought Saul and David served as priests as well. Anybody know for sure?
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Why would abandoning 1914 mean they are not chosen by God?
by InterestedOne ini've read here that if the wt admits 607 is wrong or if 1914 is wrong, the logical result is that god did not choose them as his org.
can someone explain to me how that logically follows?.
couldn't they just say, "we have received new light on that, have learned that we cannot give a specific date (like how they abandoned 1935), but look, we adhere to the bible more strictly than anyone else, we strive to 'keep the cong clean' more than any other group, etc., so therefore, we must be chosen by god as his only org.
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New World Translation into other languages; anyone knows of any critics?
by dgp inperhaps this is the wrong place to post such a question, but, is anyone aware of any criticism of the new world translation as rendered into other languages, say, spanish, portuguese, french?.
if you open a non-english version of the nwt, you find that they very clearly say you're holding a translation from english into whatever the target language is, only "checking against the hebrew and greek originals".
this is to say, there is a pecking order that begins with the translation from the original languages into english, and then another, from english into all others.
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jonathan dough
It's work but you might be able to find something here. Many NWT related sites.
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/new_world_translation_bible_holy_scriptures.html
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607 B.C.E. - A Trip To The Local Library! With Pictures!
by mentallyfree31 inwatchtower says 607 bce.
i decided to dig into this matter myself at the public library yesterday.
i examined every book i could find that contained facts about jerusalem.
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jonathan dough
35 websites that specifically discuss the 607 issue:
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/607_bce_586_587_destruction_fall_desolation_jerusalem.html
For those unfamiliar with the issues, a very brief historical overview is in order. We are basically dealing with events that span roughly 125 years, from 625 B.C.E. to 500 B.C.E. It includes the end, or fall, of the Assyrian Empire to Babylon in 609 B.C.E. followed by the rise and subsequent end, or fall, of the Neo-Babylonian Empire (Babylonian Empire) which lasted seventy years, followed by the rise and early years of the combined empires of the Persians and Medes which ended Babylon’s reign in October 539 B.C.E.
We are especially concerned with the Jews of Jerusalem and Judah during this time who were caught between these rising and falling empires, particularly the seventy-year period defined here as the Babylonian Empire. These Jews would come to serve Babylon in various capacities, as did all the surrounding nations that fell under the dominion of the Babylonians, or Chaldeans.
There were numerous Babylonian kings during this era, beginning with Nabopolassar who presided over the final demise of Assyria in 609 B.C.E., followed by his son Nebuchadnezzar (or Nebuchadrezzar), the great warrior king who consolidated the empire through numerous military campaigns. It was Nebuchadnezzar who enslaved the Jews, forced them to become vassals, dispersed them to other nations, exiled them to Babylon and annihilated or devastated Jerusalem and Judah. The end of the Babylon Empire was presided over by Nabonidus who was then king, though his son Belshazzer was co-ruler of Babylon when the Persians and Medes conquered them in October 539 B.C.E.
Our attention is basically focused on three Jewish kings:
a) Jehoiakim: He ruled eleven years, and had been in power when Nebuchadnezzar ruled in his first year as king of Babylon. Jehoiakim became a vassal to Babylon in his eighth year, rebelled against Babylon, and depending upon which Bible one reads, and other factors, was exiled to Babylon with other Jews (2 Kings 24:1-4).
b) Jehoiachin (also called Jeconiah): His reign replaced Jehoiakim's but lasted only three months at which time he, and 10,000 others - all of Jerusalem - were exiled to Babylon roughly 800 miles away (2 Kings 24:8 - 17).
c) Zedekiah: He replaced Jehoiachin, ruled eleven years, became a vassal to Babylon early on, and steadfastly rebelled against Nebuchadnezzar who then utterly destroyed Jerusalem and Judah in Zedekiah’s eleventh year; he either slaughtered, dispersed or exiled the remaining Jews to Babylon. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe this destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 607 B.C.E., while everyone else for the most part agrees it occurred in 587/6 B.C.E. See generally Jeremiah chapters 24 and 25.
After the Persians and Medes conquered Babylon in 539 B.C.E. the Jews were set free and roughly 50,000 of them returned home to Judah in the fall of 537 B.C.E. -
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Why would abandoning 1914 mean they are not chosen by God?
by InterestedOne ini've read here that if the wt admits 607 is wrong or if 1914 is wrong, the logical result is that god did not choose them as his org.
can someone explain to me how that logically follows?.
couldn't they just say, "we have received new light on that, have learned that we cannot give a specific date (like how they abandoned 1935), but look, we adhere to the bible more strictly than anyone else, we strive to 'keep the cong clean' more than any other group, etc., so therefore, we must be chosen by god as his only org.
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jonathan dough
Denying 1914 (and 607) would be going too far. The religion would cease to exist, theologically speaking. It's the hub of the wheel.
1) If 1914 is wrong, and 607 is wrong, which they are, it proves they are false prophets and false prophets do not represent YHWH .
2) Christ did not sit down to rule in 1914
3) There was no second coming of Christ in 1914
4) They could not have been chosen in 1919, as Mary said.
5) They would have to burn all of their books and pamphlets to make tangenital changes.
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/1914_jehovahs_witnesses_christs_second_coming.html
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/607_bce_586_587_destruction_fall_desolation_jerusalem.html
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I was shunned
by cantleave inin the fareham shopping centre.. a "sister" saw me.
pretended not to see me, dropped her her head and moved very quickly in the opposite direction.. i love being a dangerous apostate!!
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jonathan dough
Curious about the Society? Want to join them? Learn what you are getting into.
Verging on the macabre in this 21st Century, the Jehovah's Witnesses draconian practice of disfellowshipping and shunning current and former members is one of the most controversial aspects of this religion and has caused untold psychological and physical harm to thousands. The Watchtower Society mislabels the practice of shunning and disfellowshipping as an act of love and a means of enforcing conformity.
Scriptural justification for shunning is weak, at best. It is considered by many on the outside as one of the most offensive and unbiblical tools in the Watchtower Society's arsenal of weapons used to enforce rigid conformity to their multitude of rules and regulations. Grounds for disfellowshipping, a radical form of excommunication, are legion. The list includes adultery, fornication, greed, accepting blood transfusions (with modifications), drunkenness, associating with the disfellowshipped ... the list is very extensive and subject to wide interpretation. Many of those shunned or disfellowshipped are guilty of apostasy - abandoning the religion and turning away from the teachings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Similar to the Mob, once you're in there's no easy way out without suffering severe consequences.
A significant amount of judging and attendance at judicial committees is involved. The act of shunning and disfellowshipping as implemented by the Jehovah's Witnesses has caused untold pain and suffering among friends and family members. Families are routinely destroyed and broken up, forever; siblings are separated, often for life, parents lose their children, children lose their parents. Grandparents are ostracized and cut off from their grandchildren for the sake of keeping members 'in.'
Most often the simple act of saying hello to a disfellowshipped person, or one who has disassociated him or herself from the organization, is forbidden. The horror stories told by the disfellowshipped, thousands of them, are ghastly and heartrending. The ancient practice of disfellowshipping and shunning causes profound psychological damage, and has led to suicide. As practiced by the Jehovah's Witnesses, their extreme form of shunning in most cases is simply cruel, nothing more.
Anyone considering joining the Jehovah's Witnesses is advised to pay close attention to the consequences and repercussions for not living up to the Watchtower Society's standards, or questioning their doctrine. The ultimate price might be unbearable and irreversible. To assist you in making the right decision and help you learn more about this practice, visit the websites listed below for additional information.http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/shunning_disfellowshipped_shunning_disfellowshipping.html
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Is There Salvation Outside of The New Covenant?
by Perry inis there salvation outside of the new covenant?.
there are a number of ways that the terms of the new covenant can be violated (and thus nullified) on the part of the recipient like:.
1. attributing salvation to someone or something other than jesus.
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jonathan dough
Short Answer: No.
Aside from the obvious, that Christ's death brought forgiveness of sins for all true believers committed in this life, those who obtain this benefit, God's people, must be parties to the New Covenant.
Any man not a party to the New Covenant cannot obtain its benefits anymore than a Baal-worshipping Assyrian could obtain benefits under the Mosaic Law not being a circumcised member of the nation of Israel. And no one can have their robes washed in the blood of the Lamb Jesus, have their sins permanently forgiven in the Christian era and be perfected or justified (declared righteous) during the thousand year reign under an expired New Covenant anymore than a Christian today can have his or her sins forgiven under the obsolete Mosaic law.Make no mistake about this one fact: it is absolutely impossible, logically or scripturally, for the Jehovah’s Witnesses to educate the resurrected to perfection (justification, a declaration of righteousness and reconciliation with God; a state of sinlessness) under any set of laws, especially the so-called Law scrolls of Revelation 20:12. The gift of reconciliation, redemption, sanctification, justification and forgiveness of sins through the exercise of faith and God's gift of grace is only possible by and through the New Covenant of Christ’s blood.
A) The Covenants:The Jehovah's Witnesses' other Achilles’ Heel and the key to bringing God's alleged 1914 kingdom, and the 20th century New Covenant arrangement back to the first century where they belong.B) The Davidic Covenanta) The invention of new covenants and abrogation of existing covenants: In order to place the inception of God's kingdom in 1914, the Jehovah's Witnesses have wrongfully stripped the Davidic covenant of a priesthood, severed the Davidic covenant from the New Covenant, and limit the New Covenant to a temporary 2,000-year periodi) A first century priesthood undermines the JWs' "1914 kingdom" theory and the "first resurrection of the 144,000" theory
ii) An everlasting New Covenant would destroy the Jehovah's Witnesses' salvation plan during the millennial reign.
iii) An everlasting New Covenant would prevent the JWs from education man to a state of perfection and repeatedly judging him
iv) The Jehovah's Witnesses are unable to eliminate Jesus after the 1,000 year reign if the New Covenant, for which he is the mediator forever, is everlasting
b) The Jehovah's Witnesses' approach deprives the high priest Jesus of his priesthood, a problem they attempt to solve by inventing a separate "Melchizedek covenant." However, the so-called Melchizedek covenant is the New Covenant and therefore must last forever and include a priesthood of all Christian believers
c) All of the Jehovah's Witnesses' benefits under their temporary new covenant terminate when their new Covenant expires, shortly
d) The Jehovah's Witnesses' "covenant with Christ's followers" is a fabrication; it is not a valid separate covenant for yet another kingdom, but an administrative appointment with respect to the kingdom
C) Summary of CovenantsThe New Covenant in Detail:
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Please help!! My friend is now a return visit / doorstep study!
by AiAi ini have a friend that is a youth minister for a local church.
he has a very good understanding of scripture and we frequently have interesting discussions.
we have talked about jw beliefs before and he is always surprised to find that they can really believe what they do.
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jonathan dough
All the information you seek on this can be found right here. Start at the top and work down. Approach it from different angles.
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_144000_144_000_heaven.html
http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_beliefs_great_crowd.html